Battram "Maltese" Combo

[cRoy30]

Hey guys, I'm new to the site.

I did a quick search, found one picture of what I was looking for (so I know it does exist, lol), but not too much info.

On the Battram site I couldn't find any info, or where to place a order on the Battram "Maltese" combo. I would also like to hear some feedback from guys that might be currently wearing on.

On the GSBB site I've heard a lot of positive feedback on the Maltese model, but if Battram makes one I would like to get one from Scott.

I would also like to know the waiting time on one once its is order. My wife said she would pick it up for a Christmas gift if it would be here in time.

Thanks,
Chris Roy

[Gregan]

Hey Chris,

I'm the owner of the neck protector you are looking for. I purchased a Maltese combo from Phil Maltese, a different company/person. I didn't like the workmanship, so I asked Scott if he would use the internal foams/gels and rebuild the neck protector on the outside.

So, if you want a "Battramized" Maltese Combo, you'll have to buy one from Phil Maltese first. :)

- G

[cRoy30]

I see. Well if I get the Maltese combo, maybe I will send it off when I decide to get the Battram C/A.

Thanks for your help,
Chris Roy

[Jim**]

C Roy,
here is mine its is simply the best ever made!
http://www.goaliestore.com/board/equipment-forum/68500-battramized-maltese-combo.html

[Gregan]

No mine is! :P

[Jim**]

No mine is! :P

No mine is! ;):D:p

Because it has the ultimate neck guard material.
Neoprine. wetsuit material.. its soft does not make you hot or anything.
and doesnt retain moisture.. sweat.. so no stink.
I only washed my combo once in the last 2 months.
the old one i had due wash weekly.

This thing is truely amazing!

Next time i might cover the whole damn thing in neoprine. i like the material so much.
cheers
Jim

[Jase96]

Scott will do this??? I might have to consider sending mine over his way then...

[cRoy30]

thanks guys for all the input. I have been bugging my wife about getting me a Maltese combo for Christmas.

So if I get one I will then send it Scott's way, lol.

[Gregan]

Don't let Phil know who you are... he'll refuse to sell you one.

[HotBranch!]

I don't want to sound like a wet blanket or a nagging spouse/mother, but when I look at the Maltese neck protection, I see nothing about the standards it respects concerning cut resistance.

I believe that the de-facto standard for throat protection and cut resistance is the BNQ standard, and you should always look for the BNQ logo on your throat protection.

What I have seen of the Maltese product is that it is a foam and neoprene design, neither of these materials have much cut resistance. You may get away with one cut, but the foam will be seriously compromised and you'll need to get a new collar ASAP.

The original neck protection collar, the "crouch collar" is BNQ certified. A foam and neoprene collar may offer some impact resistance, but I wouldn't trust anything that doesn't have Kevlar or some sort of ballistic nylon that has been tested to withstand cuts, as that is the intended purpose of a collar of this sort.

If I am mistaken about the cut resistance of the Maltese product, I apologise, but most collars on the market make a point of indicating what standard(s) they conform to. Nothing I have seen on the Maltese site indicates that the collar protection offers any protection or resistance to cuts. Wearing one of these creates a false sense of security if you ask me...

[Gregan]

The core material isn't foam, it's some kind of surgical mat gel. It's about a CM think and I'm confident that it'll take a swipe from a skate.

To be honest, I'm not even all that concerned about skate blade cuts, I'm far more concerned about puck impacts. Yeah, I know, Clint back in the day got his neck slashed... I should be conscious of this, but I'm confident that it'll take at least one skate slash without compromising itself.

I believe there was a thread on the GSBB about the different protection standards and Phil addressed the questions. I'll see if I can dig that up.

[Gregan]

Here is what Phil said over on the GSBB about his collar:



Lemme see if I can shed some light on this. Mr. Miller's information is not the same as the information I received from Dr. Alan B. Ashare, head of HECC and head of the USA Hockey Safety Board.

I spent a long time trying to convince Dr. Ashare that USA Hockey should make NECK PROTECTION MANDATORY. He wouldn't do it. He told me that there is no data to suggest mandating neck protection. While he may have agreed with me on several points, he wasn't about to upset the apple cart. So until participants of USA Hockey and just about every other American hockey start dropping like flies as a result of a neck injury, don't hold your breath.

There was a league or pocket of hockey in Connecticut that observed the BNQ cert, but other than them (and there may be more) there is NO U.S. rule stipulating a BNQ cert.

BNQ certs are for the youngsters in Canada. The cert originates from the province of Quebec. The test is simple--does the neck protection in question prevent skate cuts. That's it. Not BFT, just lacerations. Not to toot my own horn, but Dr. Ashare had to admit to me that my product addressed both issues, but without data...

I even spoke to a Dr. at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN about my product. He was the guy that did a six year study on facial protection for player helmets and look how well that turned out.

So for all the experts out there, listen up. The United States does not require a certification for neck protection. If you don't like that, send Dr. Ashare your data and petition to mandate neck protection and you'll have my support.




Yeah, I thought about getting this unnecessary certification and even contacted them twice--maybe even thrice! But for what it is and the amount of money it costs, with (obviously) no guarantee that I'll make any of that investment back, I just can't bring myself to go through with it. Especially when I see what passes for neck protection that has the BNQ.

The Itech product leaps to mind. I don't know model numbers, but it's the standard issue ballistic nylon and terry material combination. Stiff as a board and God forbid you take one in the neck. Remember, it's only for lacerations, not impacts. And does BNQ certify anything to protect a player (ya know, forwards and d-men) from impacts to the neck? I know they happen, I've seen it.

Heard the news that some first base coach in minor league baseball was freakishly hit in the neck by a line drive (I'm guessing), crushed his jugular vein and he died. Not even the carotid artery. And by a round, somewhat less dense (than a puck) object.

Let's go back to hockey where much less freakish accidents/injuries happen. A person elects to go without--better yet a hockey league decides that because they have "no data" that the participants don't need to wear something that will truly protect the necks of these children. Not saying mine is the be-all-end-all, but this league doesn't place any emphasis on the need to prevent a life threatening injury. That has to happen before they're inspired to move on it.

Have a customer in Connecticut that has a son that plays in one of those pockets of BNQ-ism and he knew the deal and it just made more sense to get and use the better, uncertified product, than it was to abide by what BNQ certifies.

[Jase96]

It is definitely not your typical gel. I got mine yesterday and it is HEAVY. A lot more heavier than it looks. It is very protective and it feels very cool (literally) against the skin. Doubt I would have any issues taking skate blade to the throat as well as light shots. As far as heavy shots go, I have my doubts but I have heard others have taken hard slappers to the neck without much problem.

[DRE75]

Don't let Phil know who you are... he'll refuse to sell you one.

And why do you think that is? If you want a neck guard, buy one and if you're not happy with it, then send it to Scott to fix up. I don't think it's cool to buy a product from another manufacturer with the intent of having it re-worked by someone else right from the getgo.

But, as a purchaser, you are free to do what you will with the product you buy...

[Jester]

I have had by Maltese combo for about a year now. I have taken two pucks to the neck (one on the side of neck, one a direct shot to the collar bone). While it stung, no problem beyond a very slight bruise. I took an accidental spear and I am convinced my combo saved me from a very serious injury.

As far as comfort goes, the Maltese is in a class of its own. You simply don't feel it during play. I will definitely get another one soon to be a better color match to my Hawk Gear.

Having said that, I wish there were a few changes made to the combo. I would not mind if the front had a thin layer of kevlar sewn in. It would still keep the unit very flexible. I wished Phil would finish the back side of the combo so it didn't try to roll together. Once in a while I find myself having to uncurl it because it is uncomfortable under the back of my new Battram C/A.

I think the Maltese products are very unique. The protective material is what sets it apart. Given the sewing of the units is less than exiting, I am not surprised people are going outside to get something slightly different. I have some ideas of my own and when I get my new unit, I am going to contact Sara at PAW to get mods done. I figure Scott is going to be too busy selling his new Nexus and old style gear to want to mess with stuff...

[Scott Battram]

Jester, now you will be making Sarah the brunt of the furor that my "modding" raised!!

Yes, it has gone crazy here right now! I cant believe the success of the Nexus pad, after designing it less than a couple months ago it is easilly going to be one of the best sellers ever here at Battram! Here I was thinking the US/Canadian dollar would slow things down a bit, but not so.... and I know your gear will be in capable hands with Sara!

[Scipio]

And why do you think that is? If you want a neck guard, buy one and if you're not happy with it, then send it to Scott to fix up. I don't think it's cool to buy a product from another manufacturer with the intent of having it re-worked by someone else right from the getgo.

But, as a purchaser, you are free to do what you will with the product you buy...

So by this logic should Ford not sell me a mustang because I plan to ship it to Steeda to get it modded heavily? This is the most asinine thing I have heard and for the life of me I still don't understand what the problem is. Phil got his money and gets his money from the purchase. If it isn't to the persons liking who bought it then they can do what they want with it. If they want to send it to Scott to get modded, mod it themselves, or throw it in the trashcan that is their prerogative, regardless of whether or not they like it in the first place.

[Jester]

To Scott's comments, I am sure Sara can handle herself. Let's face it, Phil's stuff is good, he knows it. People aren't crazy about the stitching on the Maltese combo and Phil knows it. People are modding his gear and he knows it. And Scott, I'd have gone to you for the mods but right now, it makes little sense for you to get involved with this little project.

As for the bashing regarding the appropriateness of modifying manufacturers gear, it is kinda pointless. This forum has been very civil and we ought to kept it that way. So we have differing points of view. Let's express them but not get into name calling. Now kiss and make up!!!

[HotBranch!]

THanks for the excerpts, Gregan. I didn't mean to suggest that the Maltese neck protection isn't good, but the lack of a certification standard (BNQ is not the only one, just the most widely recognized) was an indication that it wasn't the best bet for protection against skate cuts.

Hearing the stories of how the Maltese collar has protected against shots and sticks makes me wonder whether I am playing in a really docile league, or if my style of play is such that these are not situations I put myself in.

I've received a few high chest shots that have left bruises and welts, but I can only remember one shot that ever came close to my throat (after I had moved to a mask and decided against a dangler), but it was pretty much a fluke shot that managed to sneak under the chin of my mask. As for sticks, I've received a few errant sticks in the head and neck area, but the proximity of the offending player to me prevented the stick from having any real velocity.

I wear neck protection to prevent skate cuts (hence, my leaning to a cut resistance certification). I trust my C/A, my mask, and my positioning and reaction to prevent the puck from getting close enough to my neck and throat to do any damage. I can understand why someone would want added protection if they are getting pucks and sticks in the neck and throat area, but it would seem to me that a dangler would be a better first line of defense.

[Scipio]

I used to swear by danglers as well. The issues I have had with them as of late though is what had me change. I had about 5 of them blow up in my face in the last 4 months or so. I generally end up with pieces of it in my eyes and cuts on my neck from the broken pieces.

[HotBranch!]

Jeebus, dude! What the hell is wrong with the skaters in your league? Unless you are, like 5 feett tall, they are wasting their shots and energy by getting all thos shots so high. I know that some guys like to deliberately fire the first couple of shots high (headhunting)in an attempt to scare the goalie and shake his confidence, but they settle down afterwards.

I typically tell the guys who fire pucks at or around my head that they won't score with shots that are above the crossbar. I can't imagine playing in a league where more than one dangler would get shattered. plus, I would probably start buying a different brand of dangler.

[Scipio]

I've tried different brands and different models and always get the same result. Shrug.

[Gregan]

Hey Hotbranch, Saying you'll rely on your reflexes to stop all shots to your throat is a bit nuts. I hope you never let any goals in...aren't you relying on your reflexes for that too?

Also, to think a player needs lots of space to get his stick to a velocity that will hurt is a bit crazy too. Give me six inches between your neck and my stick and we'll see how much I can make you hurt.

Besides, there is such a wide variety of situations, regardless of the caliber of hockey, that put your throat and every other part of your body in danger.

[Sprawl]

no matter how good you are, There are freak accidents.

I took a stick to the throat on wednesday that scared the **** out of me. Cought me right under the dangler and threw to me to the ground.

I even took a puck off my upper chest just below the throat and got a funky little bruise now.
you never know where an errant shot will bounce

[HotBranch!]

Hey Hotbranch, Saying you'll rely on your reflexes to stop all shots to your throat is a bit nuts. I hope you never let any goals in...aren't you relying on your reflexes for that too?

Also, to think a player needs lots of space to get his stick to a velocity that will hurt is a bit crazy too. Give me six inches between your neck and my stick and we'll see how much I can make you hurt.

Besides, there is such a wide variety of situations, regardless of the caliber of hockey, that put your throat and every other part of your body in danger.

Sorry if I sounded arrogant, Gregan. That wasn't my intention. No, I don't rely on reflexes alone to keep the puck away from my throat area, there are the occasional shots that catch me off guard and get a little too close for comfort. What I meant was that I trust my reflexes when I see the shot come off the stick to know roughly where it will go, so if I see a shot coming that looks like it will be neck high, I try to adjust my position to either take it in the chest as I jump, or lower my head a bit to take it in the mask.

I could also be very lucky with my mask that it offers neck protection as an added bonus. As for sticks in the head and neck area, I'm not saying that a slash or cross check from close in doesn't hurt, just that the stick doesn't have the same kind of velocity that you see skaters taking when they get slashed. I did take a number of sticks to the head from the same guy on Friday night; they didn't hurt, but I was ticked that the refs didn't call any high sticking penalties. I did let the guy know that his lack of stick control wasn't appreciated, though, in the form of several good shots to his calves when he decided to stand in front of my net on a 5 on 3. Strangely, he didn't bother me for the rest of the game.

My initial point in this thread was that the Maltese neck protector didn't look to me like it would offer much protection in the event of a skate cut, which is the primary reason I wear neck protection. If I had concerns about pucks or sticks to my throat, I would probably opt for a dangler, but the Maltese product looks like it would offer some good impact dispersion if a dangler were absent.

It wasn't my intention to slag the product or the decision to wear one over another form of protection.

[Jester]

HotBranch!,

Interesting comments and they certainly are relevant. I have a small bag full of neck protectors in the basement. I never liked any of them.

In a previous post, I stated I got a serious spear to the throat when wearing my Maltese combo. When the stick blade made contact with the gel, it did not slide at all. It just pushed in. Based on the mark on the unit, I believe the same blow with a stiffer/more rounded unit may have caused the blade to deflect up and make direct contact with the skin. That would not have been good!

So yeah, I too am unsure about the skate cut potential. But I view it as the least likely event. Given that, I think the Maltese combo works best for me. I am sure you have your favorite too. We should be thankful we have the ability to choose among many options to minimize the risk of injury.

Dan.

[Gregan]

Sorry if I sounded arrogant, Gregan. That wasn't my intention. No, I don't rely on reflexes alone to keep the puck away from my throat area, there are the occasional shots that catch me off guard and get a little too close for comfort. What I meant was that I trust my reflexes when I see the shot come off the stick to know roughly where it will go, so if I see a shot coming that looks like it will be neck high, I try to adjust my position to either take it in the chest as I jump, or lower my head a bit to take it in the mask.

I didn't think you sounded arrogant Hotbranch, don't worry!

The big eye opener for me with neck protection was a slap shot from the point that was at ice level... I was square to it, went into the butterfly and prepared to deflect the puck to the corner.... unfortunately, somone planted right in front of me, about three feet out, deflected it straight up, hitting me square in the throat.

I was winded, coughing like made, and took a good few minutes to gain my composure. I had a nice bruise to my throat that took a little while to dissapear.

That spurred me to buy a Maltese, I got the bigger version he offers, I believe a 2" collar/combo. It offers great protection. I'm very happy with the protetction it offers... and finally happy with the look/durability of it now that Scott reskinned it for me.

I would agree that a layer of plastic or kevlar inside the combo would be a nice addition provided it doesn't impact the comfort. A better alternative would be to find a nice material that doesn't get sliced by skate blades and use that on the neck portion of the product.

[Bassai]

finally happy with the look/durability of it now that Scott reskinned it for me.

I would agree that a layer of plastic or kevlar inside the combo would be a nice addition provided it doesn't impact the comfort. A better alternative would be to find a nice material that doesn't get sliced by skate blades and use that on the neck portion of the product.

According to Phil's web site the jock is:
We use two layers of gel. The outside layer is 1/8" thick Gator-Hyde™, then ¼” of the softer orange gel. The outer material is the wicking type.


To me "Gator-Hyde" would imply a tougher, more durable material. Seems odd that he wouldn't use it as an outer layer on the clav pads, neck protectors, and combos.